Fab attitude

Do you agree with Toby’s views on going green? Do you think we should be doing more to save the planet or is it a pointless exercise? Do you really care about what happens in 200 years time?

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Comments

[Tallulah]

Lets not allow culture/preferences to dictate all our actions. You don't have to have dreadlocks, eat vegan chocolate, etc, or be insufferably self-righteous to want to make a difference. What we can do is stick to a carbon ration, which we can use up in any which way we like, politically correct or not.

[Fay smith]

Only when the last
tree is cut;
Only when the last river
is polluted;
Only when the last fish
is caught;
only then will we
realise that we cannot
eat money.

-Cree Indian Proverb.

Go ahead drive around looking good in you 4x4s (could potentally kill a whole family in a standard car without sratching the paintwork). Its easy to ignor Global warming when your living your cosy lives away from the people who are actually being affected by this. The sort of people who arnt raping the very thing thats providing life and resources for us in the first place.I cannot believe your lack of knowledge, thinking that global warming means were going to have a year round lush summer?
you have to be joking?
Do people only care about their image?

and I am yet another person who cares for the planet who does not have dredlocks.

[Rob]

No surprises here to read that virtually all the detractors from Toby's article refer to the 4x4. It seems that one of the major factors in support of the so called "green" agenda, is purely personal prejudice against 4x4's by self opinionated "holier than thou" characters. It is hysterical nonsense to put down a vehicle type purely because of its form of traction.

What are their arguments? Size? Most 4x4's (or should we say SUV's, because there are a lot of ordinary family cars including small ones, which are 4x4's too?) are actually smaller than large saloon cars in both length and width. Is it mpg? The majority of SUV's are comparable in figures to large saloon cars. There is no other rational argument. "But I feel intimidated" is hardly a rational argument!

If it is just that they don't like big cars, then they should say they don't like family cars or multi-use cars you can use for towing etc on the weekend, and for work in the week, therefore "saving the planet" by not having to have two new cars and saving all the pollution and waste of materials building extra new cars causes.

Any emission problem is from the millions of volume cars on the road doing high mileages every day, not a few hundred thousand 4x4's, which have hardly any effect on emission totals at all in comparison.

They all go on about us having to have smaller cars. So what are we supposed to take the family round in, (two cars perhaps?), or tow a caravan?

While having a go at multi-use practial SUV's which have a greater life span than ordinary cars, and are therefore more friendly to the environment, they conveniently don't even mention super cars and ultra executive cars which are far less fuel efficient and less practical, while holidaying in Spain, America, or you name it, by air. It is pure prejudice.

What they like or don't like is immaterial as while the eco communists would like everybody to have the same car, and insist on telling everyone what to do all the time, there is still such a thing as freedom of choice thankfully.

If they would like us all to have cars like the Toyota Prius, that shining light of the eco community, they should remember that the Prius is in fact one of the worst polluting cars on the road today when the birth to disposal costs to the environment are all considered. Yes, worse than a V8 Range Rover. All they can see is the mpg figures, but conveniently forget the big batteries full of nasty chemicals which last for only five years. Charge an electric car up from the mains, and where does the electicity come from? Not just the socket on the wall, but most likely from a gas or coal powered power station.

As has thankfully already been said, facts show that no warming has taken place in the last ten years, the World has just had the coldest couple of winters for decades, and there is a growing dissent among thinking people (including a good book by Nigel Lawson) over what has become the greatest source of windfall taxation by successive Governments paying scientists to generate the right figures for their justification, and making sure any who dare to question them are ridiculed and sidelined.
It stands out a mile.

The Earth has been much warmer than it is now, in the recent past (Geologically speaking), and there were no 4x4's on the planet then.

Natural disasters and severe storms are put down to global warming and at the same time the reporters say "this is the worst event of this kind since 1682" or something. So it has happened before then? So what has Global Warming to do with it?

We know very very little about Earth's cycles, and they who are prepared to ruin Western economies with such very little knowledge as a basis, seeing as we all know that little knowledge can be very dangerous, and on the surmise that we are somehow big enough to stop Earth in its tracks, when it has decided to change its patterns must be very stupid.

I do agree with controlling within reason and reducing wastage, but we should be spending on adaptation, not just taxing for revenue only and being hysterical about ridiculous things like 4x4 prejudice wrapped up as saving the planet!

It has been demonstrated by Sterns, advisers to the Government, that the real cost of carbon emissions is something like £78 per tonne. If this was applied to transport, it would mean a cut in fuel duty of 20p per litre and a zeroing of road tax. This is hardly likely to happen as the government needs the revenue and this proves that these are not real "green" taxes, but a different agenda altogether.

Yes, those pictures we see of melting glaciers falling into the sea look very emotive, but the fact is that this is what glaciers always do, and there is nothing strange about that. Yes glaciers have receded, but they have grown again too. The Earth is not preserved in aspic. It changes and will continue to change. We can't do a thing about it. We really should not take everything we see and read at face value and get all worked up about it. "It was on the telly on the news so it must be right". Yeah right!

[Liz Ross]

All eco warriors have dreadlocks do we? Hmm. And when the ice caps melt your beloved 4x4 will be under water as i take it London will be the first to submerge. Will you listen then? Probably not. Hey ho, life would be boring if we all agreed, but i do think you should try thinking beyond your own needs and focus beyond the end of your street.
To comment more i would like to say that yes the planet does appear to go in cycles, but, and this argument works both ways: we have not much recorded history of the earth and its ways, but on what we can see happening at present, surely it's worth trying to do something rather than a lack lustre nothing?
The use of something, whether it is a carpet, a lawnmower, a seat at the bar, will wear over time and surely the earth will be affected in the same way?
Oh, and sorry for the non thought out order of this narrative, why does Toby relate the common mistake that he equates global warming with hot summer days! A chap in my office said the same thing not so long back, and he got a heated stare and a ''it's general warming, the earth is heating up, becoming unbalanced, the coldest parts are getting hotter and the hottest parts are getting extreme weather. Not a sunny picnnc in the park.''

[Richard]

It was refreshing to read Toby's column. I try to never make assumptions but rather do some research and come to what hopefully is an educated opinion.

Following the Al Gore debacle, I read up a little and trawled the net for information. What I did come across was a conference (of scientists and the like) where it was agreed that the climate goes in 1,500 year cycles (why is this never mentioned?)- in and out of an ice age. All we may do is speed up or slow down that process (although I think it is doubtfull that we can have any real influence), however it cannot be stopped!

If the world really was that worried about it perhaps governments should stop all unnecessary burning of fossil fuels:

1. Ban all forms of motor racing.
2. Ban all unneccesary flights - including all overseas holidays.
3. Have night time blackouts - why are shops allowed to stay lit up all night long?
4. etc etc - thats just for starters, I could go on forever.

JMHO.

[Hilda]

I have just read Toby Young's article and vehemently disagree with the notion that China's increasing carbon emissions justifies sitting back and watching the demise of the Earth. I find it very intriguing that a man who has four children who will experience the harsh and detrimetnal effects of climate change refuses to become part of the solution to solve the very real problem of global warming. After all, a little thought from each of us by this I mean adopting a greener lifestyle,will make a big difference for all of us and future generations.

[John]

Well said all the cynics! As soon as politicians picked up on the global warming/climate change scare stories we should have guessed that more taxation and social control would follow.

I see that their pet scientists have now come up with a theory that there will be 10 years of cooling before the warming carries on, how's that for edging your bets ?

[Noel Watson]

Well done Toby! Not many dare speak out like you,Littlejohn, Gaunt and Clarkson. The problem is they are trying to "greenwash" us all. If India, China and the like won't reduce their carbon emissions why should we be taxed to the hilt, what is paying more taxes going to alter anyway, apart from the money in our pockets? Most of us aren't that simple minded. Global warming (climate change) has been going on from the year dot and we can't do a thing about it. It's just a natural phenomenon. They tried to con us with the photo of 'the poor polar bears on an icefloe, all the ice was melting and polar bears would become extinct'. Of course the ice was melting: it was summer. Another con is 'saving the planet' with useless wind turbines. All they do is make our electricity 3 or 4 times dearer than it would be because by the time the wind energy company has had a share with ROC certificates, the landowners have received between £8,000 - £12,000 per turbine, per year for doing nothing other than letting wind energy companies use their land and we have paid for power station backup which we will need for ever our electric bills will go through the roof. No wonder it's goodbye to cheap energy.
Noel Watson

[Sam Dale]

I partly agree with Toby's attitude. Buy whatever car you want and revolt against being told what to do, the weather has been changing since the year dot, what car you drive is not going to stop it, it all just an excuse for taxing us. However, I personally don't want to eat chemicals, nor do I want to walk around knee deep in plastic bags, the impact of rubbish and chemicals on the environment is clear and therefore we should be more aware of of limiting our use of these. I am sure Toby would prefer his kid to grow up surrounded by land fills and full of chemicals

[ronnie smith]

well said, the evidence for global warming at best is suspect. tree hugers only hear what they want to hear, and beware your soul if you should have a different opinion on the matter.

[leanna]

This is the perfect example for people unwilling to accept responsibility. How can you possibly justifying needing a 4x4 in a city like London? It is a purely selfish attitude, not thinking for one minute about the generations to come. I guess it's an easy thing to do, especially since the impact of global warming hits the poorest the hardest.
Global warming the biggest con ever? Just because you were looking forward to warmer summers over here? What about spreading desertification, droughts and increasing famine etc in Sub-Saharan countries, what about increasing so-called "natural" disasters? I guess it doesn't concern us. Why worry if you were lucky enough to be born in a rich country like the UK.
If developed countries like the UK do not lead an example (and even the UK could do much more and lacks behind other European countries), how can we expect the developing countries to follow suit? For me it is not about "social superiority" or what others might be thinking of me. I have been brought up to respect the environment and it is a shame that people like Toby are still only having themselves in mind.

[Cobus Verhoef]

Toby should be running the country! Unlike me and Toby that is working for a living, Green thought police is doing nothing for their country except annoying people with their comments. Get a grip.

[Allen B Sage]

Well done for standing up and joining the rest of us realists.
One is inundated with phrases like "global warming" and "carbon foot prints" by the media and Politicians alike. They are trying to brain-wash us a-la-1984.
The whole green theory is built upon so-called facts and when these fail to stand-up to analysis, the so-called 'facts' are engineered to suit the argument.
The green myth is debunked by many celebrated comumnists (Littlejohn, Carkson, Gaunty) but instead of listening, people are beinbg led sheep-like into being duped.
The problem is money. Research Grants are readily available to study 'green issues' and once the Grant is received the research data has to be constructed so as to justify the Grant and pacify the Government sponsors.
Then there are the so-called 'Green Taxes'. Just another dishonest revenue collecting exercise
The Channel 4 Documentary was ridiculed because of the inclusion of a few incorrect statements but in principle the programme exposed the 'green theory' as being nothing more than a myth.
When will any Political Leader be brave enough (and honest enough) to stand up and expose the whole fallacy?

[Tim Waygood]

silly

[Lorne H]

Thank God theres someone out there with an ounce of sanity. i thought i was the only one that knew the whole save the world campaign is just a Tax revenue collection excuse. The uk is only one rain drop in a typhoon when you think of what china, russia and the third world countries pollute the air....Shout it from the rooftops!!!!

[Kat Gorham]

OK so I can say that I understand your point, and it is very frustrating that countries such as china aren't pulling their weight on the environment issue, but to use it as an excuse to do nothing is just as bad.

I think the 'Earth Nazis' that you have met must be different to the one's I have. These people are trying to make a difference, trying to protect and save our environment from the mess we have caused, so ranting and moaning about their effects isn't going to help anything, you don't need a land rover!!

"There is sufficient supply for mans need, but not for man's greed..."

Just think, if you had been born 300 yrs in the future, how you would feel then about people who thought 'well i might as well not bother because no one else is' and then you have to suffer from their selfish actions....all because they want things like a land rover!

As for your garden furniture, if your that bothered give it to someone who would appreciate it all times of the year.

Maybe you should try making a difference, read some more into the topic and realise that whilst were still trying to encourage and promote change in other countries, that change does in fact start within.

[Ron Trott]

Global warming is the biggest con ever. Thousands have the same
view on this, and i believe we need a leader to stand up like
a man, not the wimps we have as leaders, and speak up against
this lie.

The gretest problem we have in the world today,is not
global warming but. Greed.

[Bill Cormack]

Toby is spot on.

I have gone against this going green fad for years.
There is a fantastic book called The Chilling Stars by Henrik Svensmark & Nigel Calder that exlains why carbon dioxide is not the reason for climate change.Governments around the world are using climate change as an excuse for taxation. It is "THE BIGGEST CON OF THE 21st CENTURY."
ISBN No.for the book is 978 - 184046866 - 3, it is well worth a read.

[Jane Chapman]

To be honest, no I don't care what happens in 200 years from now. Who ever said the Earth was permanent, anyway?

Life is short and I'm living it to the best of my ability.

I have never been an overly wasteful person i.e. always switching off lights in unused rooms, disposing of litter in the correct way, respecting nature by not picking wild flowers or shrubs and not littering etc.

The only thing I do differently now compared to 10 or more years ago is I put recyclable materials in the bin provided by my local council.

The Earth is millions of years old and so-called 'accurate' weather records have only been kept for the last 200years. How can we possibly make a judgement based on this miniscule amount of time?

Scientists have told us the Earth has undergone many changes in temperature in those millions of years. Indeed, it has undergone desert-type phases along with the iceage.

I read recently that the receding ice in the Arctic has in fact GROWN again, yes, NOT melted but re-frozen.

[Mac]

Well done Toby! The more rational thinking people of this country have realised for a long time that there is a hidden agenda with all this gumph on green issues. The government has just used it as an excuse to tax people to the hilt in pursuit of their rediculous socialist agenda. If there is global warming then why didn't it happen 300 years ago with the industrial revolution where polution levels were so much higher!! Nothing we can do in this country will make a blind bit of difference in the overall scheme of things. The green facists are a self righteous biggotted band of prats whose arrogance is incredible. The earth is billions of years old and has gone through thousands of climate changes and it is arrogance on a grand scale for the green facists to think that it is man who has done any damage. I'm all for reducing polution levels but at least do so on a more truthful level and without using it as a social superiority exercise and to tax everything we do.

[Tony]

Toby is waving a red rag to a green bull, but his is right. We've not had any warming for the last 10 years - something the science consensus never predicted. We've actually seen planet temperatures fall in the last two years.

People have been made to buy the line that the science is settled and the discussion is over. They forget these are the lines taken by people who do not want scrutiny of what amount to nothing more than beliefs, thoughts and guesses. There has never been any evidence. Just like religion this environmentalist green lobby relies on faith, not hard facts.

Even nine key claims in Al Gore's film 'An Inconvenient Truth' were dismissed by a Judge as unproven and alarmist. We've been told we have 10 years to save the planet. But that claim has been made since 1989 and nothing has changed. CO2 is a gas needed for plant and animal life, it is not a toxin and it is not causing warming. Reducing CO2 is completely senseless.

We should tackle pollution. We should protect the environment. We should find other forms of energy so we aren't reliant on imported gas and coal. But we should end this CO2 nonsense and stop pretending that natural warming and cooling of the planet is something we can control by making people pay more taxes.